Learning to design speakers

dnb123, no one was knocking, and are all more than happy to help you.
To understand stand how a phase bung works, you need to start at the beginning.

How does a horn work, any why....

what effect does the baffle have on the sound,

what effect the length of the horn has,

what effect does the horn mouth have,

what effect does the contour shape of the horn have,

how does one of these effect the other.......

how and why does a phase bung work.......

why a square plug wont work, but a round one does....

To start at the beginning, its very easy to plot using horn resp, a mid horn and get a flat response, but whats the off axis response like etc.

To be given the this info is too easy, I was never given it, but spent years learning, and my knowledge compared to rogers is tiny....

My be you last post should of been, I still would love to have ago, were can I find great info on the subject of horns and phase bungs....

Now to help you, you will need to make you mouth round on the horn, this will help with even loading (pressure) on the cone. The size of the baffle will effect the spl of the horn and the higher cut off point. what frequency do you want the horn to play down to, 150hz is around 2 meters at full wave length, so based on a qtr wave length your horn will need to be around 500mm long..... to be able to play that low....

so now for the mouth horn size.... the height and width are relative, to the dispersion you require, both horizontal and vertical.

what type of coverage are you looking for,
how high do you want it to play,
are you looking for spl or quality....
what driver do you plan to use...

Okay hi again, I was slightly frustrated the other day and probably didn't take it as well as I could have

Now I think I understand that in order to make the distance from every part of the cone to the phase plug it needs to be round.

For starters I'm reading on all the stuff you recommended I know, I bought a book on speaker design principles. Do you recommend I read up on the behaviour of waves as well?

Also is it possible to actually draw/design a phase plug in horns resp or is this all done by knowledge and maths? Thanks guys every bit of info gets me closer

in horn resp no, I think it can be done in akabat, but ive never tried to do it. I do sim all my horns in akabat as I find it has a better prediction above 1k compared to hr. Im afraid the only way to get it right is build and burn, and build again...

Its well worth buying a wood lathe, to make the bungs.... its the only real way of turning the wood....

Roger Mogale (void owner / designer) is far more skilled with scripts in akabak than me and may be able to help, or say weather you can sim them....

worth a read hear in regards to akabak.....

www.freespeakerplans.com/kunena/8-advanc...-akabak-for-beginers

please note it only works on very old pc's windows 95.... it works by using a very old outdated computer language called dos..... I wish there was a new updated version...

bee wrote: in horn resp no, I think it can be done in akabat, but ive never tried to do it. I do sim all my horns in akabat as I find it has a better prediction above 1k compared to hr. Im afraid the only way to get it right is build and burn, and build again...

Its well worth buying a wood lathe, to make the bungs.... its the only real way of turning the wood....

Roger Mogale (void owner / designer) is far more skilled with scripts in akabak than me and may be able to help, or say weather you can sim them....

worth a read hear in regards to akabak.....

www.freespeakerplans.com/kunena/8-advanc...-akabak-for-beginers

please note it only works on very old pc's windows 95.... it works by using a very old outdated computer language called dos..... I wish there was a new updated version...

Bee while I am way behind you guys on this topic, If I remember correctly I get some of the old Dos design programs to run in XP by using XP's compatibility mode. I still didn't know how to correctly operate them however.

DNB123, even though I said I wasn't going to comment on this thread, there is some basic information you will read about in the material these guys are guiding you to. It wouldn't hurt anything for me to point out that horns work well in their native frequency ranges, far better than anything else. Folding them limits the upper range, shortening them limits the lower range. Phase plugs also help prevent shorter waves from canceling themselves out by bouncing around too much as they expand.They help load the air in certain ranges and direct the waves a couple of different ways.
The guys helping you in this thread are a lot more knowledgeable in that arena than I am. I can drive a system to its peak performance without electronic protection by ear from years of experience, not many people can truly do that. But around here I am a rank amateur who is best off listening to these guys!

Thanks any way bjm123 that actually finally made me confirm what I was already guessing. And bee I've never tried that program, I know you said that the only way is to build and burn. This build will be a permanent horn, however I will build several plugs to try. Also I was starting to do it on paper, should I learn like that or on that program?

the rules are the same, paper, sim programme.... Once you understand how and why a horn works, and weather there is a gain by having a phase bung, Not all horns need a bung.... it depends on how high you plan to use the horn....

lets say you are planning a horn to play up to 800hz and you plan to use a 2" comp.... there would be little to no gain in using a phase bung, as this will operate outside of the frequency range you are using....

ok, if you put an object inside a horn, any frequency's longer than the object wont be effected by it being there, they simple pass it by. Any frequency's shorter than the object, will suffer badly.... This is the theory behind co-axially mounting a hf driver inside a 12" horn.... the work around is to use a hf driver and xover point lower than the frequency length of its placement in the horn...

@bjm362, yes ive got it working on windows xp, wish I could get it working on win7...... Trouble is my win xp machine is on its last legs, and getting drivers for a new pc to function under xp is not gonna happen..... shame.....

Okay thanks mate, so you're saying that there is a compromise being met of which frequencies you want to keep? Also my horn will be used with a 1"comp, however the phase plug is more an on going project so even if I don't cross it as high as it could be, I'll just be satisfied for trying also I preferably preffer highs played by a paper cone, just seems to sound more crisp to me

then look at a 6.5" driver above the 12", a 12" playing from 150hz to 3k is pushing it a fair bit, not impossible but not easy....

bee wrote: then look at a 6.5" driver above the 12", a 12" playing from 150hz to 3k is pushing it a fair bit, not impossible but not easy....

That 6.5 should smooth things out significantly! Do you mind if I hum a few bars through your system after you get it built! I really like singing through systems that are smooth in that range!

BTW, I have a relatively crazy idea that should in theory make for a very cool smooth cabinet, if you are interested. The theory behind it is based on wave travel, but people will think it is nuts though. If you are interested in hearing it let me know! It is very applicable to this conversation about phase plugs!

Bee it's a 10 but I'm still considering paper cone for highs, it WILL sound nicer but... I'm gunna be doing legal events as well as squats, I'm guessing those 6.5's will get mashed by some djs. Bjm I'm all ears! I don't know much about wave travel, if you have any links on it I will appreciate it, but never the less I'll have a look for myself