mt122 loading

levyte357 wrote:

Tony Wilkes wrote: Why do people pay so much attention to Simm software? It only needs small variations of the T/S parameters which are usually a mile out to give huge variations in the published results.

The scoop lovers really crack me up with their constant reworking of various parameters within Hornresp.

Used as a very rough guide it has its uses but the only real way is to build measure and listen.

Tony

:lol:

Some of us have heard all the drivers we recommend, and know when the sims out, or spot on.

I disagree, all you know is whether it suits your personal taste or not, nothing at all to do with the simm. You only have to see the results of listening results to see that we all hear speakers (drivers) differently. The only way to test if a simm is accurate is to measure the results not listen too it, how many people have the equipment to do that.

Like I said I feel that simms are a very very rough guide as to how the speaker will perform and they have very little correlation as to how it will actually sound.

Tony

I agree tony, but for begginners or weekend warrior using a sim is a good starting guide. the main point is (guide).... a starting point. For me the drivers i have heard in a cab would be on the top of my list to load. As i have heard them and know how they sound, and what drivers i would not use. For me its research more research, and still more research before i part my money on drivers and wood.... If i was designing a new cab then i would try a few drivers first in this cab and see how it performed before making my mind up on my final driver choice. The second point to why sims are a good starting guide is money. To purchase 5 or 6 differant drivers cost a lot and using a sim narrows down the cost you can get a ruff guide and buy 3 drivers and test (listen).... But the question of (what do these speakers sound like in this cab) still puts a smile on my face...... smiley24 Buy some and find out. For me im pro sims just to narrow down driver choice in a box design, but should only be used as a starting guide. smiley16

Bee, exactly, as long as you are aware of the limitations of software then of coarse it is a useful tool.

I use Bass Box Pro in the initial design stage for my boxes but until I actually build them and listen I only have a rough idea as to whether they will match expectations. The difference in sound quality with the same box and 2 drivers both with approx the same T/S parameters can sometimes be quite staggering.

Tony

totally agree with bee.
so.. what is a good equipment to make a spl, distorsion measurement? Do exist any DIY options? and...the enviroment as well

Tony Wilkes wrote:
I disagree, all you know is whether it suits your personal taste or not, nothing at all to do with the simm. You only have to see the results of listening results to see that we all hear speakers (drivers) differently. The only way to test if a simm is accurate is to measure the results not listen too it, how many people have the equipment to do that.

Like I said I feel that simms are a very very rough guide as to how the speaker will perform and they have very little correlation as to how it will actually sound.

Tony

If a simm says an 1850 is gonna blow its excursion at approx 900W in certain large chamber scoops, I know that's right, because I've seen it about to happen many times with that precise combination.

I once tried JBL 2241 in BCsub18, and could'nt put > 500W into it unless I reduced 50-60hz, as it was about to expire.

Modelled it in WinISD, and guess what, excursion sim stated the driver would exceed Xmax at 55hz with > 500W applied.

You can't solely rely on sims, but you'll waste much time and money ignoring them all together. Unless you dont mind buying every 18" on the market, to see if it works in your cab. Good for sellers, not for buyers.

Ray, If you analyse what I have said and your last post we do not have an argument. I have just been putting forward the suggestion that to try to design a cab from simms alone without reference to actual results is less than ideal.

Tony

Tony Wilkes wrote: Ray, If you analyse what I have said and your last post we do not have an argument. I have just been putting forward the suggestion that to try to design a cab from simms alone without reference to actual results is less than ideal.

Tony

Apologies for misunderstanding... :silent:

Personally, I would never attempt to design a folded horn cab from scratch again...

Lots of sims + guess of howto fold horn into a cab ain't it...

I've commented on simms a few times before, once when I asked the question- who's box has turned out as the simms predicted. no one came back and said it was the same. I've never used any program for design, I only use equipment for measuring. I guess it's because I'm from the old school and most of my work was done before these programs existed. I think from an academic point of view they have their place. Apart from knowing that simms may only be a rough guide, I would discourage anyone from buying a speaker based only what they have seen on a screen.

Somewhere on SP there's the mid contest with mt122 and some measured plot. I guess these would be a a good starting point to face sim and plot.
If someone have some bode data of knowed plan or available as well, we can face with a sim of the same plan with the same driver. Should be very interesting bode data with different amps and processing but same cab and driver...a lot of numbers, but to me....very interesting. Yes numbers don't say nothing about sound character, but it's just a way to research is a certain driver works in certain cab.

there is a measurement and sim of the psyco sub here: forum.speakerplans.com/psyco-sub_topic25878.html
so you can compare the 2 curves which are very similar.